MetroMac Forums: Bootable External Drives - MetroMac Forums

The internal drive in my 15� G4 Powerbook (OS10.4.11) crashed and I find that I don�t have the skills or tools to do the replacement myself. Rather than spending $160. to have pros do it I am wondering if I could give up portability and start booting off a Firewire external drive. If so, what drive would be durable enough for the job? Should I put the same type of drive as is currently in the Powerbook (ATA/IDE 2.5 inch 5400 rpm 70GB) in an external Firewire enclosure, or should I use a different type of internal drive in an external drive enclosure? Or can I just buy a current good quality, rugged, larger, external hard drive? [Specific recommendations appreciated]. I want the new drive to be partitioned so I can boot into� OS10.4. (because I have some esoteric programs from defunct companies that do not run at a higher OS) and also 10.6. I own the install disks for these systems.
Thanks.
Cliff/C.J. Scheiner

cjscheiner, on 19 July 2012 - 08:31 AM, said:

You can buy any external drive who's drive size does not exceed what is supported by the OS you are running and I don't remember each change issued. If you buy a drive that offers more than one connection type like Firewire 400, FW800 and USB, you will be covered for just about any use.

It can be 2.5 " or 3.5" and buy a brand that is priced appropriately for your needs. You can look at past postings for ideas though or Google for reviews from MacWorld or the like.

Brands I buy and consider for myself or clients:

Rocstor, G-Technology, LaCie, Other World Computing, Glyph.

However, Western Digital offers some nice units as does Seagate and typically there is no one BAD brand as you will find
good and bad experiences with most. Warranty coverage is often what makes buying one brand over another but not because one has a 3 year warranty vs a 2 year but because a company may advance you a new drive or pay shipping in both directions. That is where the differences become worth noting from company to company or what you get when you buy an optional warranty.

I would only buy a drive that uses an Oxford chipset as they are most reliable and least problematic as a generality.

-Peter

Wait a minute Peter... the only Macs that are bootable from the USB or Firewire ports are the late 2011 - current Macs and only under Lion and Mt. lion versions of OSX. No other Mac System will boot off the USB or Firewire ports, and here we are discussing a G4 PowerBook running 10.4... (BTW - I love the G4s....)

Since I've been Mac since 1984 and pushed them to their extremes, I know that you cant boot from the USB or Firewire Ports because I have yet to see it done and do it myself. With USB - the old Macs sit there and Look Pretty. With FireWire there is an attempt to load as you get the Apple with the spinning icon and then a Panic Crash Page a few seconds later.

Question Cliff/C.J. Scheiner: do you have the original (or a back of) the 10.4 install DVDs?

If you need a new drive, I can install it for a lot less than $160 and have the tools to do it. I also have a backup copy of 10.4 install DVD (my original "mysteriously disappeared"). Email me if you need more details. Just have an ATA/IDE 2.5 drive to install of what size you want though I would have it between 250 - 500gb at the most. Everythiing else you can put into an external USB case to get data from.

pmfine, on 20 July 2012 - 09:19 AM, said:

This is not correct info and I am able to boot via Firewire on an external drive going back to OS 9.2.2 which is at least 10 years old if not more.

I was able to boot a G4 Mirror Mac at a client just last week via my FW external drive and that machine must be at least 6 to 8 years old too.

I have not booted into OS 9 for a few years now so I was amused at needing to do it after so long.

Not sure where you got that impression but it is absolutely 1,000% not true.

Firewire booting the OS goes back 8 to 10 years, not sure exactly when but I am sure it is documented by hardware and OS to at least OS 9.2.2 hardware needs.

USB booting is newer, whenever the first INTEL processor Mac came out, way before 2011 but not sure what year, 4 or 5 years? Maybe more - I don't know dates.

You can not use your own problems to determine whether something is possible, it may be how you created the external boot drive or your the external hardware chip.

But I guarantee if you do the research on line you will find many references to being able to do this easily.


Update, I spent a few moments Googling on this topic and here are a few links of many I found. We also may have covered topic here in the forums too but did not do a complete search


Apple's own info:
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2699

How to Boot from FW
http://www.wikihow.c...c-from-Firewire

http://easymactips.b...sx-leopard.html

http://reviews.cnet....329087-263.html

-Peter

Elfen, on 04 February 2013 - 04:21 PM, said:

My experience with FW Drives is this:
From older G3s w/FW to current machines - I have never had a FW Drive boot properly. It would attempt to boot and then crash with a panic screen.

Hundreds of times I have connected a FW drive to a Mac, put in the OS Install Disk to format and install the OS on it, and it would go through the paces of installing the OS. Sometimes it would boot the system to get me the "Hello" screen and add information on it, other times it crashes before that. But when everything is done as such it should work with a complete OS Install, it would not complete its booting of the system. If I am doing something wrong in these steps - let me know so I can correct my mistakes. But as far as my experience goes, I was never successful in booting a Mac from a Firewire Port.

Other times i have connected a Fire Wire Drive, formatted it, dragged the system files of the main drive onto it and reset to boot it from the Fire Wire drive and the same thing happens - it attempts to boot but then crash with a panic screen.

As for USB Booting, that is not possible on a G4 machine or even the older Intel machines. Only the newer Intels with Mt. Lion can boot from a drive connected to the USB port.

I have been successful in booting a Mac through the PMCIA (Expansion) port on some laptops, including the PowerBooks which has them (the 12.1" does not have this port, and I believe the 15" does not have it either, but the 17" does.).

pmfine, on 04 February 2013 - 05:08 PM, said:

Your success is where others learn but only if you import that knowledge on to them. It is definite that your experiences differ from mine.

I am not sure what you are doing incorrectly as to creation of the OS on the FW drive or using a FW chipset that may be problematic - Oxford works most reliably although I don't think it is the only one to work. A problematic hardware issue will never let you get around that so look for that as a possibility.

I can state for an absolute fact I have been booting OS9 and OSX via FW drives for over a decade, certainly G4, G5 and all INTELS but I do not know if G3 was supported without doing research. I do this every week and have even run file servers via Firewire bootable drives for weeks and weeks at a time. I only say this so we do not argue about it being possible

I have created them via normal install process and those that can not be done that way - putting many versions of an OS, I do via APM schemes with cloned bootable images.

Doing the normal OS install on the drive that is formatted correctly for the machine & OS you want to boot (APM vs. GUID) will affect success too and would cause the kernel panic I think you mentioned.

I would look there first now that I reread your posting = kernel panic from wrong formatting version for the OS/hardware.

This is why I have used the cloned bootable OS images to a partitioned APM formatted drive as it allows you to have more than one matching OS on any hard drive but it is trickier to get to work. I would look for Macworld covering this approach in the past as to how to do.

The links I gave you may be helpful but there are others that go through all the steps even better.

This one from Seagate I just found but I did not read it yet:

http://knowledge.sea...US/FAQ/185971en

I am not able to detail my process more right now due to personal issues but happy to do that at another time. I think links out there really should be helpful

-Peter

Elfen, on 05 February 2013 - 01:46 PM, said:

Thank you for the information.

As I remember it, G3s can boot off the firewire as well, or so says some apple docs I have found stating so. Turing one mac in FireWire mode (Holding down T while booting) and then connect it to another's firewire port should be able to boot up the connected machine.

pmfine, on 05 February 2013 - 03:14 PM, said: